{"id":54900,"date":"2026-03-27T10:10:12","date_gmt":"2026-03-27T10:10:12","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/?p=54900"},"modified":"2026-04-27T09:08:56","modified_gmt":"2026-04-27T08:08:56","slug":"arsenals-oldest-debutant-a-lesson-in-history","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/?p=54900","title":{"rendered":"Arsenal’s Oldest Debutant – A Lesson In History"},"content":{"rendered":"

Jimmy Smith Takes Ned Liddle’s Crown<\/strong><\/span><\/h3>\n

For 2026 I\u2019ve been celebrating the birthdays of Arsenal players, managers, backroom staff and directors each day on my Bluesky<\/a> account. In putting together the list of Arsenal birthdays for 27 March, I stumbled across an error in a player\u2019s date of birth which actually meant they are now the proud owner of an Arsenal club record. It also gives an insight into how recorded history changes and the methods Mark<\/a> and I use to research our publications.<\/span><\/p>\n

If you cast your mind back to last season, Neto made his Arsenal debut at the age of 35 years 194 days making him the club\u2019s second oldest Arsenal debutant. Ned Liddle is recognised as the oldest debutant at 36 years 308 days (some sources are a few days out as they had an incorrect date of birth).<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

\"\"
Jimmy Smith<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Among those who have celebrated their birthday on 27 March was Jimmy Smith who, until a couple of days ago, was believed to have been born in Preston in 1887 making him 33 years 154 days on his Arsenal debut in August 1920. That would make him the tenth oldest player to make his Arsenal debut. Looking for some more details on him, I noticed that someone on the ancestry.co.uk website had a James Smith in their family tree with the date of birth as 27 March 1883 in Preston. Now James Smith is very common name but it did seem strange that they had the same day, month and birthplace. Could this be the same person and, if so, which was the correct year of birth?<\/p>\n

Let\u2019s look at where the year 1887 came from. It looks likely that the source is a ledger held in the Arsenal Museum store room that records all of the players signed by the club between 1919-20 and 1938-39.\u00a0 Below is Jimmy Smith\u2019s entry for the 1920-21 season.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
James Smith’s entry in the Arsenal Ledger (click to enlarge<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Whoever recorded the dates of birth did it in a strange way. What they did was take the day and month they were born and appended it with the year in which they were signed, and then added the age they were on that date. So, for Jimmy it shows that he was 33 years old on 27 March 1920 which makes his year of birth 1887 and that he was born in Preston.<\/p>\n

Over the years I\u2019ve found a number of instances where the age on that date is out by a year. Most famously was David Jack but also Joe Shaw and Clem Voysey have been shown to be a year older than they actually were. This makes the ledger not the most reliable source of information.<\/p>\n

There are now other sources of information available that we can use to corroborate his date of birth. The British Newspaper Archive and the Arsenal official programme show us that he had previously played for Fulham.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
28 August 1920 Arsenal reserves v West Ham reserves programme (click to enlarge)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

If we look at the 1911 census we can see that he and his wife, Florence, were lodging with the Henson family in Fulham and that he is 28 years old which indicates he was born in, or around, 1883.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
James Smith 1911 Census Entry (click to enlarge)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

We now have two sources that are four years apart. If we go forward ten years to the 1921 census we find the Smiths living with Florence\u2019s parents (the Hills) in Preston. Also at the house that day was Florence\u2019s niece, Greta.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
James Smith 1921 Census Entry (click to enlarge)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

There are a couple of issues here that I am going to have make assumptions to explain. At the time of the census (24 April) Jimmy was still an Arsenal player \u2013 he played his last game on 30 April \u2013 but the entry states that he is a professional footballer but not currently employed. I think this is because he would have been told prior to this that he wouldn\u2019t be retained for the 1921-22 season and hadn\u2019t found a new club to play for. More importantly, his age is shown as 37 years 3 months which gives the impression that he was born around January 1884 \u2013 a third date! My theory is that Mr Hills and Jimmy had a bit of a mix up when they filled out the census form, especially when we see the next document.<\/p>\n

Shortly after Britain joined the Second World War, the government took a mini\u2011census which is known as the 1939 Register. Here we can see Jimmy and Florence living at 13 St. Philip\u2019s Road, Preston. Also there is Florence\u2019s niece Greta Hill (with her surname overwritten with her married name) which shows that they are the same people from the 1921 census. We can now see an actual date of birth for Jimmy \u2013 27 March (18)83. This date would have been provided by Jimmy himself to the enumerator<\/a>.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
James Smith 1939 Register Entry (click to enlarge)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Was there a James Smith born on 27 March 1883 in Preston? Yes, there was. Here is his birth certificate.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
James Smith birth certificate (click to enlarge)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

The year isn\u2019t particularly legible but this is the order that I placed for the image which shows his birth was registered in the second quarter of 1883.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

There was one James Smith who was born in Preston in at the start of 1887, but the 1921 census and 1939 register show that he was born on 19 February and was a “Powerloom Overlooker” in 1921.<\/p>\n

Jumping back to the early years of the century there is a newspaper story in the Stalybridge Reporter telling us that he was transferred from Stalybridge Rovers to Bury in February 1904, aged 20. If he was born on 27 March 1883, he would have been 20 in February 1904.<\/p>\n

\"\"
Stalybridge Reporter 20 February 1904<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Jimmy joined Arsenal in May 1920 and played his first game for them aged 37 years 154 days making him the oldest player to make their competitive first team debut. At 37 years 156 days he is also the oldest player to score their first goal for Arsenal (this was previously held by Ronnie Rooke at 35 years 7 days) and third oldest player to score a goal for the Arsenal after Jock Rutherford (39 years 344 days) and Leslie Compton (39 years 187 days).<\/p>\n

This is a perfect example of why you shouldn\u2019t believe what someone writes if they don\u2019t show primary sources to back up their claim and we should all be prepared to accept that what we\u2019ve been told is true, isn\u2019t necessarily so.<\/p>\n

Here is a list of the ten oldest players to make their Arsenal debut<\/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n
Age<\/strong><\/td>\nName<\/strong><\/td>\nDate of debut<\/strong><\/td>\nOpponents<\/strong><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
37y 154d<\/td>\nJimmy Smith<\/td>\n28\/08\/1920<\/td>\nAston Villa<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
36y 308d<\/td>\nNed Liddle*<\/td>\n02\/04\/1915<\/td>\nHull City<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
35y 194d<\/td>\nNeto<\/td>\n29\/01\/2025<\/td>\nGirona<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
35y 7d<\/td>\nRonnie Rooke<\/td>\n14\/12\/1946<\/td>\nCharlton Athletic<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
34y 278d<\/td>\nMart Poom<\/td>\n08\/11\/2006<\/td>\nEverton<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
34y 208d<\/td>\nStephan Lichtsteiner<\/td>\n12\/08\/2018<\/td>\nManchester City<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
34y 19d<\/td>\nDick Roose<\/td>\n16\/12\/1911<\/td>\nMiddlesbrough<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
33y 348d<\/td>\nTommy Lawton<\/td>\n19\/09\/1953<\/td>\nManchester City<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
33y 341d<\/td>\nCharlie Buchan<\/td>\n29\/08\/1925<\/td>\nTottenham Hotspur<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n

* The spelling of Ned Liddle’s name is worthy of another blog as his involvement in the downfall of Sir Henry Norris.<\/p>\n

But for the fact that he played as guest during World War 2, Bert Dawes of Crystal Palace would top the list. He played against Brighton in a Football League (South) game on 20 January 1945 aged 37 years 272 days. Bill Ratcliffe of Oldham would also make the list. He was 35 years 355 days when he played against Charlton on 14 April 1945.<\/p>\n

Sources<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Arsenal official matchday programme
\nancestry.co.uk<\/a>
\nBritish Newspaper Archive<\/a><\/p>\n

\n

Copies of our books\u00a0Royal Arsenal \u2013 Champions of the South<\/a>\u00a0and\u00a0Arsenal: The Complete Record 1886-2018<\/a>\u00a0are still available from the publishers.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Jimmy Smith Takes Ned Liddle’s Crown For 2026 I\u2019ve been celebrating the birthdays of Arsenal players, managers, backroom staff and…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-54900","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p87inb-ehu","jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":7151,"url":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/?p=7151","url_meta":{"origin":54900,"position":0},"title":"Arsenal’s Imposter Manager – Seeing Isn’t Always Believing","author":"arsenalcollection","date":"29 November 2013","format":false,"excerpt":"by Andy Kelly and Mark Andrews (@Gooner_AK)\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 (@Royal Arsenal MRA) The eagle-eyed amongst you who have read through this season's handbook will have noticed a minor change within the list of managers. Arsenal's second manager has changed from George Elcoat to William Elcoat. The reason for this is constant badgering\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Arthur Kennedy"","block_context":{"text":"Arthur Kennedy","link":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/?cat=665"},"img":{"alt_text":"George Elcoat becomes William Elcoat","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/11\/handbooks.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":35537,"url":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/?p=35537","url_meta":{"origin":54900,"position":1},"title":"Arsenal underground station renamed earlier than believed","author":"arsenalcollection","date":"31 October 2015","format":false,"excerpt":"Celebrating the wrong day for nearly 60 years If you\u2019re an Arsenal fan that has been to a game any time in the last 80 odd years, the chances are you will have used or walked past Arsenal underground station. And if you\u2019re an Arsenal fan with an interest in\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Herbert Chapman"","block_context":{"text":"Herbert Chapman","link":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/?cat=654"},"img":{"alt_text":"Arsenal_station_tiling","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/09\/Arsenal_station_tiling.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/09\/Arsenal_station_tiling.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/09\/Arsenal_station_tiling.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x"},"classes":[]},{"id":50889,"url":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/?p=50889","url_meta":{"origin":54900,"position":2},"title":"Arsenal Star Suspended – Involved With Betting Organisation","author":"arsenalcollection","date":"16 November 2024","format":false,"excerpt":"Proven Innocent Not Good Enough For The FA In the mid-1920s a legendary Arsenal player was suspended by the Football Association in a bizarre episode that went on to play a part in four Arsenal directors, including chairman Henry Norris, being banned from the game for life. In October 1924\u2026","rel":"","context":"With 1 comment","block_context":{"text":"With 1 comment","link":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/?p=50889#comments"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Athletic_News_13_October_1924_0001_Clip.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Athletic_News_13_October_1924_0001_Clip.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Athletic_News_13_October_1924_0001_Clip.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x"},"classes":[]},{"id":44871,"url":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/?p=44871","url_meta":{"origin":54900,"position":3},"title":"Fred Ollier – The Arsenal Obituary 2023","author":"arsenalcollection","date":"1 January 2024","format":false,"excerpt":"Fred Ollier Born in Crewe, Fred first visited Highbury in 1946 and regularly attended matches thereafter. He began his statistical odyssey in tandem with a job on the Railway. \u201cFred\u2019s passion, dedication and perfectionism ensured his historic contribution has made an indelible mark on the club he loved so much\u201d.\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/01\/1980-08-30-Tottenham-Hotspur-H-FL-08-Copy.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/01\/1980-08-30-Tottenham-Hotspur-H-FL-08-Copy.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/01\/1980-08-30-Tottenham-Hotspur-H-FL-08-Copy.jpg?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/01\/1980-08-30-Tottenham-Hotspur-H-FL-08-Copy.jpg?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/01\/1980-08-30-Tottenham-Hotspur-H-FL-08-Copy.jpg?resize=1050%2C600&ssl=1 3x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/01\/1980-08-30-Tottenham-Hotspur-H-FL-08-Copy.jpg?resize=1400%2C800&ssl=1 4x"},"classes":[]},{"id":35422,"url":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/?p=35422","url_meta":{"origin":54900,"position":4},"title":"How Arsenal’s name changed – Dial Square","author":"arsenalcollection","date":"14 April 2023","format":false,"excerpt":"by Andy Kelly and Mark Andrews With the recent proposed name change of Hull City to Hull Tigers* a discussion ensued on twitter about Arsenals' previous names (as well as the current name). So, we thought that we would clarify Arsenal's names throughout the years, when they changed and why.\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"Dial Square\"","block_context":{"text":"Dial Square","link":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/?tag=dial-square"},"img":{"alt_text":"Dial Square Cricket Club v Bushey Woolwich Gazette 27 August 1886","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/01\/1886-08-27-Woolwich-Gazette-Dial-Square-v-Bushey-cricket1.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":9050,"url":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/?p=9050","url_meta":{"origin":54900,"position":5},"title":"The First Arsenal Crest – The Origins","author":"arsenalcollection","date":"29 November 2024","format":false,"excerpt":"The First Arsenal Crest Mark Andrews and Andy Kelly Mr Kelly asked me last month whether I had ever seen the first crest of the club prior to it's publication in the Book of Football 1904-05.\u00a0I sat pondering in my Woolwich Arsenal bobble hat which was skilfully produced by our\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Arthur Kennedy"","block_context":{"text":"Arthur Kennedy","link":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/?cat=665"},"img":{"alt_text":"Woolwich Arsenal crest 1904-5","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/11\/Woolwich-arsenal-crest-1904-5-300x210.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/54900","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=54900"}],"version-history":[{"count":14,"href":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/54900\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":54957,"href":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/54900\/revisions\/54957"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=54900"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=54900"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thearsenalcollection.org.uk\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=54900"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}